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Missing Left Sock Beast
.:: .::...:.. .: : .:::.:. ...

Coyote Musings
Coyote handsome
his coat the same brown
as the dust from which he rises


What is the sound of one hand slapping Schroedinger's cat?


The Quantum Duck goes "quark, quark."

September 2010
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Missing Left Sock Beast [userpic]
I know we're all probably getting tired of boobs

(Take the title as you wish.)

Because some people seem to have missed this fact, at the first con there were no "opt-in" or "opt-out" buttons, and theferret admits that strange women were approached largely based on how they were dressed. It turns out that the scantily-clad Princess was a friend of a friend, so I'm not counting her in that comment, but the requests to touch boobs* breasts or other body parts were not limited to the friend group nor those who were wearing buttons.

However: I agree with this comment, and am once again reposing my own from elseJournal having finally nailed my thoughts down to roughly a sentence:

It's the suggestion that anyone, anywhere, should be able to question my right to my bodily integrity because it will make the world a happier healthier place with butterflies and Bambi and bunnies ejaculating rainbows that got my hackles up, I think.

Instead of making cons a place where you have to explicitly wear a button to tell people you're not interested in even being asked about being touched, how about we work toward making a world where no one has the right to critique your body or invade your personal space, regardless of gender, without your permission.

"My Body, My Choice," isn't just about abortion.

*Whether or not we're getting tired of boobs, I'm getting tired of the word. Although it does remind me of one of my favorite (sexist) jokes (as rendered in the song "Bad Jokes" from the A Prairie Home Companion Movie:

When God created woman, he gave her not two breasts but three,
when the middle breast got in the way, God performed surgery.
Woman stood before God, the middle breast in hand,
said, "What shall we do with the useless boob?" and God created Man.

I can't help myself. I had to check.

Yep. It made OTF_Wank. (Not fandom_wank because, well, not fandom.)


Ah, I thought it would be the "mad cow" joke. You know: Why do they call it PMS? Because "mad cow" was already taken. lollers!

I love telling that joke to my brother because he cannot conceive of me actually telling a joke like that. It blows his little mind.

The first time I sprung the "Viagra Shipment" on my boss, she about hurt herself laughing.

There is just something about a bad joke. :)

I hope you don't mind my saying, by the way, but I think you look really lovely in your new user pic.

Edited at 2008-04-23 03:36 am (UTC)

Honestly, all of my favorite jokes come from that segment of Prairie Home Companion. Two cows are in a field. The first cow says to the second cow, "What do you think of this mad cow disease?" The second cow says, "Why should I care? I'm a helicopter!" Har har har. I promise all my fav jokes don't involve mad cows, though.

Mind? Why should I mind? I'm an attention whore! :D No, I'm not really, but I'm always pleasantly surprised when people tell me I look nice, because I'm usually somewhere on the road to dishevelment. I have a fifteen-minute window before I drip something on myself, etc. Sometimes I don't even make it out of the bathroom.

Um, in other words, thank you very much.

Ole, how's that toilet brush, the one you got from the neighbors?
Ole said, "it works pretty good, but I prefer toilet paper."

You're very welcome, and you didn't need the disclaimer because I'm willing to bet you look lovely even desheveled. ;) I just thought that, given the discussion, asking permission or at least forgiveness for drawing attention to your appearance was appropriate.

Woody Harrelson and John C. Reilly were a surprisingly awesome Dusty and Lefty. As in, I'd watch a movie about their cowboy adventures readily, along with Kevin Kline as Guy Noir. That's probably not going to happen, considering how poorly the movie did.

Actually, now that I think about it, "A Prairie Home Companion" would probably be a good movie to discuss regarding commenting on people's appearances. There are all the references made to Maya Rudolph's stage manager about her pregnancy and her appearance/attractiveness. Dusty also says something to Lefty about losing twenty-five pounds of ugly fat by cutting off his head. And all those "rude songs" the two sing -- "I'll show you my moonshine if you show me your jugs", for example.

Whoa. I've seen that movie way too many times.

It's all good. :D I figure by placing my picture on the internet, I'm exposing my appearance to comment. If it's from a friend or not meant maliciously, I don't care. Just by being alive and interacting with society, I'm opening myself for people to judge. I don't think there will ever be a time in the future where people stop making internal judgments about people's appearance. That doesn't mean it's a good thing, just that it will continue to happen. The important part is that people don't act on those judgments in a harmful or presumptuous way. Like grabbing a stranger's boob, which is both harmful and presumptuous.

"Instead of making cons a place where you have to explicitly wear a button to tell people you're not interested in even being asked about being touched, ..."

Are you proposing a potential end to this situation, or is this your understanding of how the button system worked?

(It is a very good thing I work during the day, for I might otherwise have gotten quite worked up by what appears to have been a nontrivial fight on LJ among various corners.)

You know, I've been told that nobody who didn't wear a button was asked, and everyone understood that rule and only asked people wearing a "Yes" button.

But if the people involved truly believed that, you've got to wonder why they bothered with a "No" button at all...

At the first con, there were no buttons and people who theferret described as "dressed to impress" were approached.

It was only at the second con that the buttons appeared, and they were apparently the work of one woman (again, based on theferret's post.)

Sigh. And I see now that I have repeated myself. *headdesk*

Edited at 2008-04-24 03:04 pm (UTC)

My understanding about how this worked, is that the buttons were "yes, you may ask" and "no, you may not ask" although theferret's original post is somewhat ambiguous on that point.

"(First: The program's an opt-in program, which is to say that if you're not wearing a button, we'll never ask. Certainly the first wave of con-asking was something with the severe potential for harm, which is why we decided on the need for buttons. The need for a red button was debated, and we decided to have it just in case... But if even if you never wear any button at all, you won't be asked. At all. It's not as though we'd be gang-pressing people into servitude." (bolding mine)

Is that to say that's how it happened for everyone? Certainly not. But that's how the program was being run.

Not initially:

Emboldened, we started asking other people. And lo, in the rarified atmosphere of the con, few were offended and many agreed. And they also felt that strange charge. We went around the con, asking those who we thought might be amenable - you didn't just ask anyone, but rather the ones who'd dressed to impress - and generally, people responded. They understood how this worked instinctively, and it worked.
(bolding mine)

At the first con, there were no buttons. Everyone was apparently assumed to be wearing a "yes you may" button. In particular, they asked people who were "dressed to impress." I know what that sounds like to me. What does it sound like to you?

Also, I think it's springheel_jack's post on the subject that mentions that women are often assumed to be wearing a green button by default - I know what theferret has said was intended, but small group dynamics are extremely different from large group dynamics (she said, preaching to the choir) and what can be controlled in the former cannot be in the latter.

(Incidentally, and not intended as a criticism, I find it interesting that you and I are disagreeing, however mildly, on this subject.)

Yes, that comment was made of win.